Discussion:
Hybrids cost less
(too old to reply)
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-17 19:41:21 UTC
Permalink
DETROIT, MI (January 8, 2007) - A survey released today by PRIMEDIA's
IntelliChoice.com, the leading source for automotive ownership cost and
value analysis, reveals that the twenty-two hybrid vehicles currently on
the market save their owners more money than the other vehicles in their
respective classes.

"With the number of hybrids now on the market, the end of 2006 was an
opportune time to examine the cost performance of each hybrid model with
respect to the rest of the vehicles in their peer group," said James
Bell, publisher of IntelliChoice.com. "Across the board, we found that
all twenty-two hybrid vehicles have a better Total Cost of Ownership
(TCO) over five years or 70,000 miles than the vehicles they directly
compete against."

Bell said that aside from lower fuel costs, other factors playing a role
in hybrids' cost performance are better-than-expected depreciation and
resale value. Also, contrary to skeptics and critics, repair and
maintenance costs have not proven to be higher than those of other
vehicles.

"Up to now," Bell added, "The Prius has been the darling of the hybrid
set, and it remains our highest rated value for hybrid vehicles. But
this survey validates the cost performance of the other many hybrid
models that are currently on the market. All of the hybrids in our study
have achieved 'Excellent' ratings in their respective classes from
IntelliChoice.com."

IntelliChoice.com's hybrid survey ranks hybrids in order of their
performance against their peer group:

Brand Model Trim 5Yr Expected 5Yr Actual
Cost Cost
Toyota Prius 33305 19896
Honda Civic Hybrid(Auto) 31595 23268
Honda Civic Hybrid w/Nav(Auto) 32843 24891
Toyota Highlander Hybrid 2WD 44841 34038
Lexus RX 400h 2WD 54121 41472
Lexus RX 400h AWD 55509 42681
Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4WD 45868 35690
Lexus RX 400h AWD(Original Version) 57231 45640
Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 2WD 48409 38902
Ford Escape Hybrid 2WD 39361 32188
Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited 4WD 49436 40522
Mercury Mariner Hybrid 41349 34331
Ford Escape Hybrid 4WD 40839 34696
Honda Accord Hybrid 40803 34706
Honda Insight (Manual) 28724 24755
Honda Insight AC(Auto) 30354 26424
Honda Insight AC(Manual) 29690 26212
Honda Accord Hybrid w/Nav 42305 37411
Chevrolet Silverado LT Hybrid 2WD* 42840 39377
GMC Sierra SLE Hybrid 2WD* 43041 39709
Chevrolet Silverado LT Hybrid 4WD* 45345 42260
GMC Sierra SLE Hybrid 4WD* 45824 42884
* All trim lines 1500 Extended Cab

Methodology
When analyzing Total Cost of Ownership, IntelliChoice.com focuses on
seven key criteria, including depreciation, fuel cost, finance costs,
insurance, repairs, maintenance and applicable state fees. In the case
of hybrids, IntelliChoice.com also factors in federal tax credits.

For the survey, 2006 model year hybrids were analyzed for their Total
Cost of Ownership over a five-year or 70,000-mile period. The five-year
expected Cost of Ownership for each hybrid vehicle is based on the
average cost of all vehicles in each class.

"Hybrids are proving themselves to be an excellent alternative for car
buyers. Even when factoring in the additional upfront costs for their
purchase, the long-term savings hybrids generate makes them a sensible
and attractive purchase," said Bell.

Against all criteria, IntelliChoice.com found the Toyota Prius to be the
best in overall class. Along with the Toyota Prius, the Honda Civic,
Toyota Highlander, Ford Escape and Honda Insight also received top marks
for value. Some of the top hybrids in the 2006 survey were previously
awarded IntelliChoice's Best Overall Value of the Year (BOVY).
IntelliChoice.com's BOVY awards recognize cars, trucks and SUVs that
will cost significantly less to own than would be expected of vehicles
at their purchase prices. A listing of 2006 winners and more information
on the awards can be found at www.intellichoice.com.

2007 ownership costs on all new hybrid and regular models will be
available from IntelliChoice.com in late January.

About IntelliChoice.com
Part of PRIMEDIA's Enthusiast Media, IntelliChoice is the market leader
in automotive ownership cost and value analysis. Founded in 1986,
IntelliChoice is committed to empowering consumers to make better
purchase decisions by providing independent and essential automotive
information and tools. Through the IntelliChoice web site
(www.intellichoice.com), consumers get the help they need to research,
compare, configure and price vehicles. The site also connects buyers to
the buying alternatives of their choice, including vehicle manufacturers
and online buying services.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-17 19:53:05 UTC
Permalink
A Prius would have cost me another $1500 and gotten only ten mpg more than
my Corolla.

I believe it's still only those drivers doing a lot of stop and go city
driving that can save in the long run....

Not that there's anything wrong with that....
Larry in AZ
2007-01-17 20:11:28 UTC
Permalink
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
A Prius would have cost me another $1500 and gotten only ten mpg more than
my Corolla.
That all..? I thought the difference was much greater.
Post by Seth Hammond
I believe it's still only those drivers doing a lot of stop and go city
driving that can save in the long run....
Not that there's anything wrong with that....
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very disappointed, as
their more costlier cars do not deliver better mileage, and in some cases not
even as good.

I blame not reading the fine print...
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-17 20:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry in AZ
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very
disappointed, as their more costlier cars do not deliver better
mileage, and in some cases not even as good.
Not that I've heard about.

But you can keep perpetuating that myth or you can look at the results
of the research by IntelliChoice.com

The bottom line is that in the long run, hybrids have a lower total cost
of ownership than equivalent non-hybrid models.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Larry in AZ
2007-01-17 23:23:54 UTC
Permalink
Waiving the right to remain silent, Michelle Steiner
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very
disappointed, as their more costlier cars do not deliver better
mileage, and in some cases not even as good.
Not that I've heard about.
rec.autos.honda has plenty of owner complaints about it. Also see
Consumer Reports, two or three months ago. Unfortunately, their best
online reporting requires a paid subscription.
Post by Michelle Steiner
But you can keep perpetuating that myth or you can look at the results
of the research by IntelliChoice.com
It's no myth, and I'm not against hybrid cars. That's just your lefty
agenda intimating that I said something which I didn't say.
Post by Michelle Steiner
The bottom line is that in the long run, hybrids have a lower total cost
of ownership than equivalent non-hybrid models.
That jury isn't in yet...
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-17 23:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry in AZ
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very
disappointed, as their more costlier cars do not deliver better
mileage, and in some cases not even as good.
Not that I've heard about.
rec.autos.honda has plenty of owner complaints about it.
*nod* I've not been paying attention to hybrids other than the Prius.
Toyota's and Honda's hybrid technologies are quite different from each
other.
Post by Larry in AZ
Also see Consumer Reports, two or three months ago. Unfortunately,
their best online reporting requires a paid subscription.
I happen to have a paid account there. I couldn't find anything that
claims that people were complaining about the hybrids not getting as
good mileage as equivalent conventional cars. It is well known that
hybrids don't get EPA mileage (although I know people who have beaten
EPA mileage, and I come close to matching it), but what many people
overlook is that that is true for all cars, not just hybrids. Auto
makers are required to advertise only EPA mileage if they advertise
mileage at all--and window stickers are required to have the EPA mileage
on them.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
samovar
2007-01-18 00:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very
disappointed, as their more costlier cars do not deliver better
mileage, and in some cases not even as good.
Not that I've heard about.
rec.autos.honda has plenty of owner complaints about it.
*nod* I've not been paying attention to hybrids other than the Prius.
Toyota's and Honda's hybrid technologies are quite different from each
other.
Post by Larry in AZ
Also see Consumer Reports, two or three months ago. Unfortunately,
their best online reporting requires a paid subscription.
I happen to have a paid account there. I couldn't find anything that
claims that people were complaining about the hybrids not getting as
good mileage as equivalent conventional cars.
Dumbass, you always rationalize your BAD decisions, you surgical capon
freak!

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/06/instant_survey_83.php

My old VW Tdi got better real-world mileage than the typical prius, and
the fuel would ofteny be cheaper than premium. Plus, you have veggie and
bio-diesel options available to you.

And wait.. a Prius that actually gets 48mpg????? Where?



Thinking that a Prius gets 48 mpg in the real world is crap. For the way
most people drive on the hgihway, they will only get between 36 and 40
mpg. BTDT, my TDI easily gets WAY better real world mileage than a Prius
on the same roads and speeds.


http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/hybridwatch02.html

Irene S. in Montebello, California, wrote that the mileage drop-off in
her 2005 Prius was almost immediate.

"When I started driving the car, I got 44 mpg on the street. Presently,
I am still driving the car on the street and getting about 24 mpg and
the odometer reads 780 miles."

Dave B. in Laguna Woods, California, reports similar problems with his
2004 Prius but he knew the cause. The gasoline engine is running too
much: "The last two times I filled the tank I got 25 miles per gallon.
Not acceptable. The gasoline engine runs continuously."

Dave's Toyota dealer where he purchased the hybrid has been unable to
help after three trips to the service department. "They agree the
gasoline engine should not start up until the car gets up to 20 miles
per hour, but cannot correct the problem," he wrote.
Larry in AZ
2007-01-18 01:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Waiving the right to remain silent, Michelle Steiner
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very
disappointed, as their more costlier cars do not deliver better
mileage, and in some cases not even as good.
Not that I've heard about.
rec.autos.honda has plenty of owner complaints about it.
*nod* I've not been paying attention to hybrids other than the Prius.
Toyota's and Honda's hybrid technologies are quite different from each
other.
Post by Larry in AZ
Also see Consumer Reports, two or three months ago. Unfortunately,
their best online reporting requires a paid subscription.
I happen to have a paid account there. I couldn't find anything that
claims that people were complaining about the hybrids not getting as
good mileage as equivalent conventional cars.
It was in the magazine and wasn't about complaints. It detailed the real
world costs of hybrid vs. conventional from the same manufacturer, with
other options being more or less equal.

The essence of it was that if you didn't drive XXX miles per year, you
would not break even, given the extra cost of the hybrid, over a XX year
period. The "X's" were typical figures for the average car owner.

I threw out the issue, so cannot refer to it for exactness...
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 03:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry in AZ
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very
disappointed, as their more costlier cars do not deliver better
mileage, and in some cases not even as good.
Not that I've heard about.
rec.autos.honda has plenty of owner complaints about it.
*nod* I've not been paying attention to hybrids other than the
Prius. Toyota's and Honda's hybrid technologies are quite
different from each other.
Post by Larry in AZ
Also see Consumer Reports, two or three months ago.
Unfortunately, their best online reporting requires a paid
subscription.
I happen to have a paid account there. I couldn't find anything
that claims that people were complaining about the hybrids not
getting as good mileage as equivalent conventional cars.
It was in the magazine and wasn't about complaints. It detailed the
real world costs of hybrid vs. conventional from the same
manufacturer, with other options being more or less equal.
This portion of the thread was about complaints of not getting mileage.
See above.

However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options cannot be
comparable because the Prius has standard features and options that are
just not available on the Corolla.

Further, you seem to have missed this, in a later issue:

"'The dollars & sense of hybrids' posted on ConsumerReports.org is an
updated and corrected version of the report printed in the April issue
of Consumer Reports magazine. It includes the following changes:

" € A calculation error involving projections for depreciation in the
original, printed version led us to overstate how much extra money
hybrids will cost owners during the first five years, compared with
owning similar all-gas models.

"Our data show that if buyers are able to take full advantage of limited
federal tax credits, four hybrids are projected to cost less, as
follows: Ford Escape Hybrid, $2,400; Honda Civic hybrid, $100; Toyota
Camry Hybrid, $1,700; and Toyota Prius, $1,100. The other three--the
Honda Accord Hybrid, Lexus RX400h, and Toyota Highlander Limited
Hybrid--are projected to cost an estimated $4,800 to $6,400 more to own
during that five-year period."

By the way, I've driven approximately 250 miles since my last fillup
(and have about half a tank left); my gas mileage since that fillup is
currently 50.7 miles per gallon--and that's low compared to many other
Prius drivers I met on line throughout the country.

I do feel sorry, though, for anyone who owns a diesel car these days.
Diesel is running more than 20 cents a gallon more than high test--more
than 40 cents a gallon more than regular--at a Diamond Shamrock station
three miles from my house.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 04:12:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
This portion of the thread was about complaints of not getting mileage.
See above.
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options cannot be
comparable because the Prius has standard features and options that are
just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu ft. for
the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 06:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu
ft. for the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
How about vehicle weight?
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 15:25:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu
ft. for the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
How about vehicle weight?
I thought about that, but the prius has this mucking big battery pack that it
has to drag around. The prius probably has flimsier doors, etc. because of the
need to keep the overall weight down. The extra 500 pounds on an econobox is
going to translate to worse braking and handling.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 16:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by AZ Nomad
I thought about that, but the prius has this mucking big battery pack
that it has to drag around.
Curious thing, though, is that it still gets much better gas mileage
than all other gasoline vehicles in production.
Post by AZ Nomad
The prius probably has flimsier doors, etc. because of the need to
keep the overall weight down.
But it doesn't.

I just ran a comparison between the Prius, Corolla CE, and Camry CE. I
chose the base models of all three cars.
Prius is $7,070 more than the Corolla, and $2,655 more than the Camry.

Here are some differences among the models. I'll leave their
significances up to the reader.

Power door locks: standard on P and Ca; optional on Co.
Heated side mirrors: standard on P; not available on Ca or Co.
Homelink: optional on P; n/a on Ca or Co.
Air conditioning: automatic climate control on P (i.e., you set the
temperature, and it adjusts heating and cooling automatically); plain
a/c on Ca and Co.
Vanity mirrors: lighted on P, but not on Ca or Co.
Trip computer: Standard on P, n/a on Ca or Co.
Traction control: Standard on P; optional on Ca, n/a on Co.
Xenon headlights: Optional on P; n/a on Ca or Co.
Fog lights: Optional on P; n/a on Ca or Co.
Anti-theft alarm: Remote on P, n/a on Ca or Co.
GPS Nav system: Optional on P; n/a on Ca or Co.
Turning radius: 34.1 ft on P; 36.1 ft on both Ca and Co.
Front leg room: 41.9 on P; 41.3 on Co; 41.7 on Ca.
Rear leg room: 38.6 on P; 35.4 on Co; 38.3 on Ca.
EPA city MPG: 60 on P; 30 on Co; 24 on Ca
EPA hwy MPG: 51 on P; 38 on Co; 33 on Ca.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 18:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
I thought about that, but the prius has this mucking big battery pack
that it has to drag around.
Curious thing, though, is that it still gets much better gas mileage
than all other gasoline vehicles in production.
Post by AZ Nomad
The prius probably has flimsier doors, etc. because of the need to
keep the overall weight down.
But it doesn't.
I just ran a comparison between the Prius, Corolla CE, and Camry CE. I
chose the base models of all three cars.
Prius is $7,070 more than the Corolla, and $2,655 more than the Camry.
Here are some differences among the models. I'll leave their
significances up to the reader.
Power door locks: standard on P and Ca; optional on Co.
Heated side mirrors: standard on P; not available on Ca or Co.
Homelink: optional on P; n/a on Ca or Co.
Air conditioning: automatic climate control on P (i.e., you set the
temperature, and it adjusts heating and cooling automatically); plain
a/c on Ca and Co.
Vanity mirrors: lighted on P, but not on Ca or Co.
Trip computer: Standard on P, n/a on Ca or Co.
Traction control: Standard on P; optional on Ca, n/a on Co.
Xenon headlights: Optional on P; n/a on Ca or Co.
Fog lights: Optional on P; n/a on Ca or Co.
Anti-theft alarm: Remote on P, n/a on Ca or Co.
GPS Nav system: Optional on P; n/a on Ca or Co.
Turning radius: 34.1 ft on P; 36.1 ft on both Ca and Co.
Front leg room: 41.9 on P; 41.3 on Co; 41.7 on Ca.
Rear leg room: 38.6 on P; 35.4 on Co; 38.3 on Ca.
EPA city MPG: 60 on P; 30 on Co; 24 on Ca
EPA hwy MPG: 51 on P; 38 on Co; 33 on Ca.
--
FWIW, my Corolla LE has nearly all options listed. I admire that Traction
Control though. They say by 2012 it will be standard....

What did it for me was acceleration. The Prius is a dog compared to a
Corolla. When I say sic 'em at the on-ramps I get to 90 in a heartbeat.
That little 1.8 screams like an Offy....
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 19:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
What did it for me was acceleration. The Prius is a dog compared to
a Corolla.
According to Consumer Reports; the Corolla does 0 to 60 in 9.8 seconds;
the Prius does it in 10.5 seconds. About 7% faster. Not significant,
in my opinion.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 20:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
What did it for me was acceleration. The Prius is a dog compared to
a Corolla.
According to Consumer Reports; the Corolla does 0 to 60 in 9.8 seconds;
the Prius does it in 10.5 seconds. About 7% faster. Not significant,
in my opinion.
Sure sounds like the prius is in the same clss as the corolla given that
it has econobox performance (actually slightly worse).
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 20:47:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
What did it for me was acceleration. The Prius is a dog compared to
a Corolla.
According to Consumer Reports; the Corolla does 0 to 60 in 9.8 seconds;
the Prius does it in 10.5 seconds. About 7% faster. Not significant,
in my opinion.
--
Now check 0-90. The Corolla doesn't come alive until 60.

See Variable Valve Timing
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
What did it for me was acceleration. The Prius is a dog compared to
a Corolla.
According to Consumer Reports; the Corolla does 0 to 60 in 9.8 seconds;
the Prius does it in 10.5 seconds. About 7% faster. Not significant,
in my opinion.
--
Now check 0-90. The Corolla doesn't come alive until 60.
Sadly neither did you...
Post by Seth Hammond
See Variable Valve Timing
See used up rice thrasher.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
What did it for me was acceleration. The Prius is a dog compared to
a Corolla.
According to Consumer Reports; the Corolla does 0 to 60 in 9.8 seconds;
the Prius does it in 10.5 seconds. About 7% faster. Not significant,
in my opinion.
But your opinions do not matter Mikey, everyone knows you delude
yourself on a daily basis.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
When I say sic 'em at the on-ramps I get to 90 in a heartbeat.
That little 1.8 screams like an Offy....
Oh I kinda doubt it given the ACTUAL test data:

http://www.carsdirect.com/research/new_cars/buying_guides/passenger_cars/compact_cars/rankings#acceleration

0-60mph:

2007 Toyota Corolla 8.9 sec

2007 Mazda MazdaSpeed3 6.2 sec

The only thing that screams here is your lying stupidity Les.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
I thought about that, but the prius has this mucking big battery pack
that it has to drag around.
Curious thing, though, is that it still gets much better gas mileage
than all other gasoline vehicles in production.
So freaking what?

It's a poor handling, bad braking PIG!
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
The prius probably has flimsier doors, etc. because of the need to
keep the overall weight down.
But it doesn't.
I just ran a comparison between the Prius, Corolla CE, and Camry CE.
The Camry is not a subcompact, FAULTY comparison, you nutless capon.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-20 20:25:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Malone
Post by Michelle Steiner
Curious thing, though, is that it still gets much better gas
mileage than all other gasoline vehicles in production.
So freaking what?
It's a poor handling, bad braking PIG!
Wrong again, dickhead.
Post by Sam Malone
Post by Michelle Steiner
I just ran a comparison between the Prius, Corolla CE, and Camry CE.
The Camry is not a subcompact, FAULTY comparison
Neither is the Prius, moron.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 21:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Sam Malone
Post by Michelle Steiner
Curious thing, though, is that it still gets much better gas
mileage than all other gasoline vehicles in production.
So freaking what?
It's a poor handling, bad braking PIG!
Wrong again, dickhead.
Ah me, you just have to be schooled:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tech/TechSnapPrius1_5_01b.pdf

skidpad .654g

braking from 60-0mph 135.1 ft.
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Sam Malone
Post by Michelle Steiner
I just ran a comparison between the Prius, Corolla CE, and Camry CE.
The Camry is not a subcompact, FAULTY comparison
Neither is the Prius, moron.
Yes Mikey it is!

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2001-to-2003-toyota-prius.htm

Toyota closely followed Honda's lead into hybrid-powertrain territory
with its subcompact Prius sedan, which debuted as a 2001 model.


Dumbass.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-20 21:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Malone
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Sam Malone
It's a poor handling, bad braking PIG!
Wrong again, dickhead.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tech/TechSnapPrius1_5_01b.pdf
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2001-to-2003-toyota-prius.h
tm
Toyota closely followed Honda's lead into hybrid-powertrain territory
with its subcompact Prius sedan, which debuted as a 2001 model.
Thanks for proving that you live in the past. That model was
discontinued in 2003, asshole.

The current model of the Prius, which debuted in 2004 (and was Motor
Trend Magazine's "Car of the Year") is a mid-sized sedan.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 18:37:13 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:44:32 -0700, Michelle Steiner
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu
ft. for the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
How about vehicle weight?
I thought about that, but the prius has this mucking big battery pack that it
has to drag around. The prius probably has flimsier doors, etc. because of the
need to keep the overall weight down. The extra 500 pounds on an econobox is
going to translate to worse braking and handling.
I don't think that pack weighs as much as you think. The big difference as
I've already noted is the TWO propulsion systems. A gas tank and a battery
pack. A gasoline engine and an electric motor....
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 19:09:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:44:32 -0700, Michelle Steiner
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu
ft. for the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
How about vehicle weight?
I thought about that, but the prius has this mucking big battery pack that it
has to drag around. The prius probably has flimsier doors, etc. because of the
need to keep the overall weight down. The extra 500 pounds on an econobox is
going to translate to worse braking and handling.
I don't think that pack weighs as much as you think. The big difference as
I've already noted is the TWO propulsion systems. A gas tank and a battery
pack. A gasoline engine and an electric motor....
I don't care if the extra weight is mostly battery, or half battery, half
motor. It is still extra weight that doesn't equate to a more solid
vehicle.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 19:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by AZ Nomad
I don't care if the extra weight is mostly battery, or half battery,
half motor. It is still extra weight that doesn't equate to a more
solid vehicle.
So, larger gas tanks and larger engines are a negative? They add extra
weight, and don't equate any more than the batteries and electric motor
do to a more solid vehicle.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 20:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
I don't care if the extra weight is mostly battery, or half battery,
half motor. It is still extra weight that doesn't equate to a more
solid vehicle.
So, larger gas tanks and larger engines are a negative? They add extra
weight, and don't equate any more than the batteries and electric motor
do to a more solid vehicle.
--
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When they
turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have something....
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 21:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
I don't care if the extra weight is mostly battery, or half battery,
half motor. It is still extra weight that doesn't equate to a more
solid vehicle.
So, larger gas tanks and larger engines are a negative? They add extra
weight, and don't equate any more than the batteries and electric motor
do to a more solid vehicle.
--
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When they
turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have something....
Solar panels are good for calculators or charging batteries for rarely used
devices, but they'll never be practical for transportation. Few people
will think it reasonable to wait a month to drive a few miles or think it
reasonable to pay a million dollars for a panel the size of a soccar
field to get enough charging capability equivelent to filling up a gas tank
once a week.
Larry in AZ
2007-01-18 21:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When
they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have
something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of them are
gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 22:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When
they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have
something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of them are
gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
http://solar.eng.yale.edu/
Loading Image...
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 22:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When
they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have
something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of them are
gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
That's old hat. Corbin's Sparrow was freeway capable. He sold it to
someone evidently undercapitalized

The latest I've seen has a 45 mile range, but accelerates like a rocket.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 23:01:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When
they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have
something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of them are
gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
That's old hat. Corbin's Sparrow was freeway capable. He sold it to
someone evidently undercapitalized
The latest I've seen has a 45 mile range, but accelerates like a rocket.
Here's the Sparrow:

http://www.hightechscience.org/sparrow.htm
Larry in AZ
2007-01-19 20:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting
for commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive.
When they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will
have something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of
them are gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
That's old hat. Corbin's Sparrow was freeway capable. He sold it to
someone evidently undercapitalized
The latest I've seen has a 45 mile range, but accelerates like a rocket.
http://www.hightechscience.org/sparrow.htm
The new subject was "solar powered."
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."
Seth Hammond
2007-01-19 20:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting
for commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive.
When they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will
have something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of
them are gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
That's old hat. Corbin's Sparrow was freeway capable. He sold it to
someone evidently undercapitalized
The latest I've seen has a 45 mile range, but accelerates like a rocket.
http://www.hightechscience.org/sparrow.htm
The new subject was "solar powered."
--
It works in sunlight.
AZ Nomad
2007-01-19 21:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting
for commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive.
When they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will
have something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of
them are gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
That's old hat. Corbin's Sparrow was freeway capable. He sold it to
someone evidently undercapitalized
The latest I've seen has a 45 mile range, but accelerates like a rocket.
http://www.hightechscience.org/sparrow.htm
The new subject was "solar powered."
--
It works in sunlight.
It is solar powered. It just takes a few hundred million years for the
solar power to be collected and converted into petroleum.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-19 21:23:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by AZ Nomad
It is solar powered. It just takes a few hundred million years for
the solar power to be collected and converted into petroleum.
That's not possible; the universe is only about six thousand years old.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-19 22:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
It is solar powered. It just takes a few hundred million years for
the solar power to be collected and converted into petroleum.
That's not possible; the universe is only about six thousand years old.
--
Uh oh. The lunatics have taken over the asylum again....
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
It is solar powered. It just takes a few hundred million years for
the solar power to be collected and converted into petroleum.
That's not possible; the universe is only about six thousand years old.
--
Uh oh. The lunatics have taken over the asylum again....
So you feel more at home now...
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
It is solar powered. It just takes a few hundred million years for
the solar power to be collected and converted into petroleum.
That's not possible; the universe is only about six thousand years old.
Really?

Who told ya that?
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
It works in sunlight.
Do you?
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 23:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When
they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have
something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of them are
gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
That's old hat. Corbin's Sparrow was freeway capable. He sold it to
someone evidently undercapitalized
The latest I've seen has a 45 mile range, but accelerates like a rocket.
Funny. I just searched for information on the corbin sparrow and I don't
see much in the way of solar panels on it. It would be awfully wobbly in
the wind with a 10'x25'x solar panel sitting on it's roof.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 23:12:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:56:02 -0700, Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When
they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have
something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of
them
are
gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
That's old hat. Corbin's Sparrow was freeway capable. He sold it to
someone evidently undercapitalized
The latest I've seen has a 45 mile range, but accelerates like a rocket.
Funny. I just searched for information on the corbin sparrow and I don't
see much in the way of solar panels on it. It would be awfully wobbly in
the wind with a 10'x25'x solar panel sitting on it's roof.
Yuk, yuk.

The original Corbin was also available with an aircooled v-twin Honda
sticking up from the stubby 'hood'.

The current Sparrow claims the same 45 mile range and 110V recharge but
doesn't have the balls to the wall acceleration of the more recent
competitor I saw....

Cute l'il thing, that Sparrow....
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 23:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
The original Corbin was also available with an aircooled v-twin Honda
sticking up from the stubby 'hood'.
The current Sparrow claims the same 45 mile range and 110V recharge but
doesn't have the balls to the wall acceleration of the more recent
competitor I saw....
Cute l'il thing, that Sparrow....
Actually, ultralights like the sparrow are possibly the future of personal
transportation once fossil fuel supplies start getting scarce and assuming
nuclear fussion for power generation doesn't become a reality.

Roads for ultralights are also a hell of a lot cheaper than roads designed
to carry trucking.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-19 00:24:53 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:12:13 -0700, Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
The original Corbin was also available with an aircooled v-twin Honda
sticking up from the stubby 'hood'.
The current Sparrow claims the same 45 mile range and 110V recharge but
doesn't have the balls to the wall acceleration of the more recent
competitor I saw....
Cute l'il thing, that Sparrow....
Actually, ultralights like the sparrow are possibly the future of personal
transportation once fossil fuel supplies start getting scarce and assuming
nuclear fussion for power generation doesn't become a reality.
Roads for ultralights are also a hell of a lot cheaper than roads designed
to carry trucking.
What's needed is a newer version of the 50's Messerschmitt. One drive wheel
in back, two in front. Motorcycle driveline w/ shaft.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:12:13 -0700, Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
The original Corbin was also available with an aircooled v-twin Honda
sticking up from the stubby 'hood'.
The current Sparrow claims the same 45 mile range and 110V recharge but
doesn't have the balls to the wall acceleration of the more recent
competitor I saw....
Cute l'il thing, that Sparrow....
Actually, ultralights like the sparrow are possibly the future of personal
transportation once fossil fuel supplies start getting scarce and assuming
nuclear fussion for power generation doesn't become a reality.
Roads for ultralights are also a hell of a lot cheaper than roads designed
to carry trucking.
What's needed is a newer version of the 50's Messerschmitt. One drive wheel
in back, two in front. Motorcycle driveline w/ shaft.
Brilliant, it handled like a pitcher of water, braked erratically, and
was a one man death trap - I'm in favor of you driving one every day!
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Seth Hammond
The original Corbin was also available with an aircooled v-twin Honda
sticking up from the stubby 'hood'.
The current Sparrow claims the same 45 mile range and 110V recharge but
doesn't have the balls to the wall acceleration of the more recent
competitor I saw....
Cute l'il thing, that Sparrow....
Actually, ultralights like the sparrow are possibly the future of personal
transportation once fossil fuel supplies start getting scarce and assuming
nuclear fussion for power generation doesn't become a reality.
Roads for ultralights are also a hell of a lot cheaper than roads designed
to carry trucking.
Ever moved bulk good to the stores in an ultralight?
AZ Nomad
2007-01-20 20:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Malone
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Seth Hammond
The original Corbin was also available with an aircooled v-twin Honda
sticking up from the stubby 'hood'.
The current Sparrow claims the same 45 mile range and 110V recharge but
doesn't have the balls to the wall acceleration of the more recent
competitor I saw....
Cute l'il thing, that Sparrow....
Actually, ultralights like the sparrow are possibly the future of personal
transportation once fossil fuel supplies start getting scarce and assuming
nuclear fussion for power generation doesn't become a reality.
Roads for ultralights are also a hell of a lot cheaper than roads designed
to carry trucking.
Ever moved bulk good to the stores in an ultralight?
Ever driven from one side of L.A. to the other at 8am?
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 20:49:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Sam Malone
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Seth Hammond
The original Corbin was also available with an aircooled v-twin Honda
sticking up from the stubby 'hood'.
The current Sparrow claims the same 45 mile range and 110V recharge but
doesn't have the balls to the wall acceleration of the more recent
competitor I saw....
Cute l'il thing, that Sparrow....
Actually, ultralights like the sparrow are possibly the future of personal
transportation once fossil fuel supplies start getting scarce and assuming
nuclear fussion for power generation doesn't become a reality.
Roads for ultralights are also a hell of a lot cheaper than roads designed
to carry trucking.
Ever moved bulk good to the stores in an ultralight?
Ever driven from one side of L.A. to the other at 8am?
Ever need food on the shelves?

Hope you live by a farmer.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, "Seth Hammond"
Post by Seth Hammond
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive. When
they turn car roofs into practical solar panels we Zonies will have
something....
Every year, there's a race somewhere of solar-powered cars. Most of them are
gossamer thin and barely carry one person very s-l-o-w-l-y...
--
That's old hat. Corbin's Sparrow was freeway capable. He sold it to
someone evidently undercapitalized
The latest I've seen has a 45 mile range, but accelerates like a rocket.
You need to read more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

The Tesla Roadster is the first fully electric automobile to be produced
by electric car firm Tesla Motors. Tesla claims prototypes have been
able to accelerate from 0-60 mph (100 km/h) in about 4 seconds, and
reach a top speed of 130 mph (210 km/h). Additionally, the car will be
able to travel 250 miles (400 km) on a single charge of its lithium ion
batteries. While the Roadster does not actually use gasoline, an
equivalent fuel efficiency of 135 mpg (57 km/l, or 1.75 l/100 km) is
reported[1].
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
I don't care if the extra weight is mostly battery, or half battery,
half motor. It is still extra weight that doesn't equate to a more
solid vehicle.
So, larger gas tanks and larger engines are a negative? They add extra
weight, and don't equate any more than the batteries and electric motor
do to a more solid vehicle.
--
They seem to be making some pure battery cars that look interesting for
commuters. Plug into 110V at either or both ends of the drive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

The Tesla Roadster is the first fully electric automobile to be produced
by electric car firm Tesla Motors. Tesla claims prototypes have been
able to accelerate from 0-60 mph (100 km/h) in about 4 seconds, and
reach a top speed of 130 mph (210 km/h). Additionally, the car will be
able to travel 250 miles (400 km) on a single charge of its lithium ion
batteries. While the Roadster does not actually use gasoline, an
equivalent fuel efficiency of 135 mpg (57 km/l, or 1.75 l/100 km) is
reported[1].
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
I don't care if the extra weight is mostly battery, or half battery,
half motor. It is still extra weight that doesn't equate to a more
solid vehicle.
So, larger gas tanks and larger engines are a negative? They add extra
weight, and don't equate any more than the batteries and electric motor
do to a more solid vehicle.
So arguing an irrelevancy is...IRRELEVANT!
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 20:41:02 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:37:13 -0700, Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:44:32 -0700, Michelle Steiner
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu
ft. for the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
How about vehicle weight?
I thought about that, but the prius has this mucking big battery pack
that
it
has to drag around. The prius probably has flimsier doors, etc. because of the
need to keep the overall weight down. The extra 500 pounds on an
econobox
is
going to translate to worse braking and handling.
I don't think that pack weighs as much as you think. The big difference as
I've already noted is the TWO propulsion systems. A gas tank and a battery
pack. A gasoline engine and an electric motor....
I don't care if the extra weight is mostly battery, or half battery, half
motor. It is still extra weight that doesn't equate to a more solid
vehicle.
Agreed. Extra weight means bigger more expensive tires that wear out
faster, brakes as well.

The battery replacement cost seems more urban myth than anything more....

Hybrids will improve. I'm glad to see options to the continued use of
petroleum products as if they were infinite.

How's hydrogen coming along?
AZ Nomad
2007-01-18 21:01:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
The battery replacement cost seems more urban myth than anything more....
Really? Has there ever been a time where a hybrid car has gotten to be
old enough to need a battery and that a battery that will fit has been
both available and afordable?
Post by Seth Hammond
Hybrids will improve. I'm glad to see options to the continued use of
petroleum products as if they were infinite.
How's hydrogen coming along?
stillborn. Hydrogen is a collosal waste. It is far more efficient to just
run a gasoline engine than to generate hydrogen from fossil fuels and try
to transport it. Generating hydrogen from electricity is nothing but a joke
aimed at those ignorant of physics to an absolute. You'd have an easier time
powering a car from burning money than spending it on hydrogen.
Larry in AZ
2007-01-18 21:57:10 UTC
Permalink
Waiving the right to remain silent, AZ Nomad
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:41:02 -0700, Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
The battery replacement cost seems more urban myth than anything more....
Really? Has there ever been a time where a hybrid car has gotten to be
old enough to need a battery and that a battery that will fit has been
both available and afordable?
Post by Seth Hammond
Hybrids will improve. I'm glad to see options to the continued use of
petroleum products as if they were infinite.
How's hydrogen coming along?
stillborn. Hydrogen is a collosal waste. It is far more efficient to
just run a gasoline engine than to generate hydrogen from fossil fuels
and try to transport it. Generating hydrogen from electricity is
nothing but a joke aimed at those ignorant of physics to an absolute.
You'd have an easier time powering a car from burning money than
spending it on hydrogen.
That reminds me of a Jimmy Fallon bit on an old SNL Weekend Update.

As best as I can remember it...

FALLON: "Fuel researchers now claim they could develop a car that runs on
Hazelnut shells. Last time I bought Hazelnuts, they cost eight bucks for
six ounces. Way to go, researchers!!!"
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 22:52:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry in AZ
Waiving the right to remain silent, AZ Nomad
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:41:02 -0700, Seth Hammond
Post by Seth Hammond
The battery replacement cost seems more urban myth than anything more....
Really? Has there ever been a time where a hybrid car has gotten to be
old enough to need a battery and that a battery that will fit has been
both available and afordable?
Post by Seth Hammond
Hybrids will improve. I'm glad to see options to the continued use of
petroleum products as if they were infinite.
How's hydrogen coming along?
stillborn. Hydrogen is a collosal waste. It is far more efficient to
just run a gasoline engine than to generate hydrogen from fossil fuels
and try to transport it. Generating hydrogen from electricity is
nothing but a joke aimed at those ignorant of physics to an absolute.
You'd have an easier time powering a car from burning money than
spending it on hydrogen.
That reminds me of a Jimmy Fallon bit on an old SNL Weekend Update.
As best as I can remember it...
FALLON: "Fuel researchers now claim they could develop a car that runs on
Hazelnut shells. Last time I bought Hazelnuts, they cost eight bucks for
six ounces. Way to go, researchers!!!"
--
The same pattern applies to corn-based ethanol when field corn relies upon
petroleum based fertilizers and pesticides as well as petro-fueled farm
vehicles. There are other plants that are much more efficient, but there's
no one behind them named Bayh....
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
The battery replacement cost seems more urban myth than anything more....
Nope:

http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html

The Plot Thickens
The one item that nobody has been talking about is the replacement costs
for batteries—because nobody is replacing them. That's what I thought
until I received an email from Ray Molton, who works in the real estate
industry in Houston, Texas. Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five
years and 113,000 miles. And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer
estimated the replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the
car for parts."

Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue." He
called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000 to
$9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another 2001
Prius with a bad battery. Maybe there is a conspiracy brewing, after
all. In a follow-up email, Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these battery
issues to get out to the public. How could there be two 2001 Priuses in
the same shop at the same time, if they have had no problems with the
batteries?"

To make matters worse, Ray bought a salvage Prius battery to soften the
damage to his pocketbook—only to discover that the salvage battery's #13
cell was corroded, the same #13 cell that had a problem on his Prius.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu
ft. for the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
How about vehicle weight?
I thought about that, but the prius has this mucking big battery pack that it
has to drag around. The prius probably has flimsier doors, etc. because of the
need to keep the overall weight down. The extra 500 pounds on an econobox is
going to translate to worse braking and handling.
The Prius, as you correctly note, handles like a pig:

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_107799/article.html

the handling is poor and the steering dreadful, being vague and
over-assisted around centre.

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=17995

I am a new Prius owner located in Orange County in California. I
purchased my Prius to drive in the Diamond Lane on the 405 Freeway back
and forth to Los Angeles (which can get up to 2+ hours each way at times
in the regular lanes).

The first time I drove this vehicle at highway speeds 65+ on the 405 I
had the unpleasant experiance of very irratic handling - with the car
darting around in response to tracking the rain groves carved in the
surface of the highway. At 70+ I felt as if I was close to loosing
control of the car any time I was buffeted by wind. I began a process
followed by many others in this forum in upgrading tires, purchasing a
BT Plate to stiffen the chassis, looking at spoiler deflectors, sandbags
in the passenger seat etc. Gosh, there's a whole industry growing just
to address Prius stability problems.

Honestly, the last time I drove a car that handled so bad at speed - it
was an old Econline Van.

I've had a lot of help and some kindred sympathy from many others in
this forum about this issue and have seriously considered selling this
car at a huge loss and getting a 06 Honda Civic Hybrid. I don't need 3+
hours of anxiety a day traveling a few inches from the centerline wall.

http://www.priusonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=8238&sid=7edca98388736589d83e54c91ad6b550

the brakes on my 05 Prius failed (pedal sank to the floor; brake and ABS
light went on). About twenty minutes later, when I restarted it, the
brakes worked fine. I took it to my local dealer, (The computer error
codes that came up for the technician were C1357, and detail code 2 but
they could find no explaination for the failure. They would like me to
believe that my car is now safe, although they made no repairs of
changes. Their contention is that since the code is not currently being
displayed, there is nothing to fix. My contention is that the brakes
failed with no warning, they have done nothing to change or repair it,
thus they have no evidence that it will not recur- parhaps while I am
driving at freeway speeds or down a windy mountain road, which could
have catastrophic consequences.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-20 20:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Malone
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_107799/article.html
That article is about the model of Prius that was discontinued after the
2003 model year, you dumb shit.
Post by Sam Malone
the handling is poor and the steering dreadful, being vague and
over-assisted around centre.
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=17995
One person's experience, which is contrary to the experiences of
thousands of other Prius drivers.

Even someone as mentally deficient as you should be able to understand
that isolated incidents do not establish a pattern.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 22:03:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Sam Malone
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_107799/article.html
That article is about the model of Prius that was discontinued after the
2003 model year, you dumb shit.
.645 g on the skidpad, you nutless wonder...

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/intellichoice/sedans/369_0508_review_2005_toyota_prius/index1.html
The electric-system-intense Prius lacks the kind of feedback from the
steering, brakes, and suspension that enthusiast drivers seek. Also, the
narrow tires relinquish grip very early compared with most sedans.
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Sam Malone
the handling is poor and the steering dreadful, being vague and
over-assisted around centre.
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=17995
One person's experience, which is contrary to the experiences of
thousands of other Prius drivers.
Mmm, nope!
Post by Michelle Steiner
Even someone as mentally deficient as you should be able to understand
that isolated incidents do not establish a pattern.
Ah but they're not "isolated incidents" capon!

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/112_0505_2004_toyota_prius

The steering feel has been described as "roadus disconnectus"--totally
numb, according to one editor's semi-Latinspeak--lacking in
communication and somewhat nonlinear.

Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 18:31:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu
ft. for the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
How about vehicle weight?
--
I don't know, but I'd expect the Prius to weigh more. It has TWO engine
systems.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu
ft. for the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
How about vehicle weight?
How about big ass heavy battery pack?

You'll grasp at any straw to legitimize your irrational hybrid purchase
won't you nutless one?
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 18:19:56 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:34:34 -0700, Michelle Steiner
Post by Michelle Steiner
This portion of the thread was about complaints of not getting mileage.
See above.
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options cannot be
comparable because the Prius has standard features and options that are
just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu ft. for
the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
That's more like it.

Another thing about both: They have more headroom than I've seen for
decades. I can wear a cowboy hat and never brush the headliner, and that's
while sitting square upright with my heels directly below my knees. I'm
5'9".

I always thought 'streamlined' meant low silhouette. Show me a lower 4-dr
sedan that gets better than my 40mpg....
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 18:26:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
I always thought 'streamlined' meant low silhouette.
Not necessarily. The Prius has the lowest air-drag coefficient of any
automobile on the market today. (Well, maybe I should exclude six-digit
priced vehicles from that because I don't know whether they were
included in the comparisons.)
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
I always thought 'streamlined' meant low silhouette.
Not necessarily. The Prius has the lowest air-drag coefficient of any
automobile on the market today.
Bzzznt!

Wrong again you nutless capon:

http://www.cars.com/carsapp/boston/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/mvp/vpedia/coefficient_drag_popup.tmpl

One of the most aerodynamic production vehicles sold today, with a Cd of
0.25, is Honda’s Insight. Currently the most fuel-economical vehicle
sold, the Insight features a teardrop shape and fender skirts designed
to cheat the wind.

http://www.pressroom.com.au/press_kit_detail.asp?clientID=2&navSectionID=11&categoryID=1000&kitID=40

Prius’ coefficient of drag has been slashed from 0.29 to 0.26.


You just keep lying to support that irrational hybrid purchase Mikey!
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-20 20:23:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Malone
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/boston/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/mvp/vp
edia/coefficient_drag_popup.tmpl
The Insight isn't sold any more, you brainless buffoon.
Post by Sam Malone
You just keep lying to support that irrational hybrid purchase
The Insight is a hybrid, you ignorant fuckwit.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 21:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Sam Malone
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/boston/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/mvp/vp
edia/coefficient_drag_popup.tmpl
The Insight isn't sold any more, you brainless buffoon.
You stupid hairlip fake twat:

http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Insighthttp://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Insight
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Sam Malone
You just keep lying to support that irrational hybrid purchase
The Insight is a hybrid, you ignorant fuckwit.
Mikey. you nutless hormonal fuckwit, there are OTHER cars with good .cds
that are not hybrids!

http://www.answers.com/topic/drag-coefficient-1
0.28 - Toyota Camry and sister model Lexus ES, 2005
0.28 - Porsche 997, 2004
0.28 - Renault 25 TS, 1984
0.28 - Saab 9-3, 2003
0.27 - Infiniti G35, 2002 (0.26 with "aero package")
0.27 - Mercedes-Benz W203 C-Class Sedan, 2001 - 2007
0.27 - Rumpler Tropfenwagen, 1921
0.27 - Toyota Camry Hybrid, 2007
0.26 - Alfa Romeo Disco Volante, 1952
0.26 - Hotchkiss Gregoire, 1951
0.26 - Lexus LS 430, 2001 (0.25 with air suspension)
0.26 - Mercedes-Benz W221 S-Class, 2006
0.26 - Toyota Prius, 2004
0.26 - Vauxhall Calibra, 1989
0.25 - Audi A2 1.2 TDI, 2001
0.25 - Dymaxion Car, 1933
0.25 - Honda Insight, 1999
0.25 - SmILE (an experimental car)
0.212 - Tatra T77 a, 1935
0.20 - Loremo Concept, 2006
0.20 - Opel Eco Speedster Concept, 2003
0.195 - General Motors EV1, 1996
0.19 - Alfa Romeo BAT Concept, 1953
0.19 - Dodge Intrepid ESX Concept , 1995
0.19 - Mercedes-Benz Bionic Concept, 2005 [2] (based on the boxfish)
0.16 - Daihatsu UFEIII Concept, 2005
0.16 - General Motors Precept Concept, 2000
0.14 - Fiat Turbina Concept, 1954
0.137 - Ford Probe V prototype, 1985
0.117 - Summers Brothers Goldenrod Bonneville race car, 1965
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
I can wear a cowboy hat and never brush the headliner,
You can also wear a cowboy hat and never brush your lover's nutsack...
Post by Seth Hammond
and that's
while sitting square upright with my heels directly below my knees.
And I bet you can bend double and blow yourself like Ron Jeremy - BFD!
Post by Seth Hammond
I'm 5'9".
And like almost all small men you have the classic braggadocio little
man complex.

Git the fuck outta here you frigging Jew-hating smurf.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by AZ Nomad
Post by Michelle Steiner
This portion of the thread was about complaints of not getting mileage.
See above.
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options cannot be
comparable because the Prius has standard features and options that are
just not available on the Corolla.
Not by much. The difference is less than 10%. 90cu ft. vs. 96 cu ft. for
the passengers, 13.6cuft vs. 14.4 cuft for luggage.
Oh my, you used facts, Mikey hates facts....
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 18:07:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options cannot be
comparable because the Prius has standard features and options that are
just not available on the Corolla.
Like what?

I don't remember the 2003 Prius as being bigger than the 2003 Corolla, and I
looked at both at the time. I know a salesman pointed out that the Corolla
was bigger than the Camry of just a few years earlier.

My Corolla is the LE, or top of the Corolla line. I still just love it.
It's probably the best car I've ever owned.

I've had Lincolns, Buicks, MG, Olds, Pontiacs, Chryslers, Fords, and
Chevys....
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 18:32:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Like what?
See the list I posted earlier today.
Post by Seth Hammond
I don't remember the 2003 Prius as being bigger than the 2003
Corolla,
The Prius was completely redesigned for the 2004 model. There is no
comparison in size or shape between the 2004 through 2007 and the 2003
and earlier models.

<Loading Image...>
(2004 through 2007)

<Loading Image...> (2003
and earlier)
Post by Seth Hammond
My Corolla is the LE, or top of the Corolla line. I still just love
it. It's probably the best car I've ever owned.
Well, of course; it's a Toyota.

Oh, if you can find time to hie down to Chandler, check out the new Big
2 Toyota showroom that opened there today--right at the intersection of
Gilbert Road and the San Tan Freeway (Loop 202).
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 19:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options
cannot be comparable because the Prius has standard features and
options that are just not available on the Corolla.
Like what?
See the list I posted earlier today.
Post by Seth Hammond
I don't remember the 2003 Prius as being bigger than the 2003
Corolla,
The Prius was completely redesigned for the 2004 model. There is no
comparison in size or shape between the 2004 through 2007 and the 2003
and earlier models.
<http://leblogautomobile.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/toyota_prius.jpg>
(2004 through 2007)
<http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2003/02/26/156024.1-lg.jpg> (2003
and earlier)
Post by Seth Hammond
My Corolla is the LE, or top of the Corolla line. I still just love
it. It's probably the best car I've ever owned.
Well, of course; it's a Toyota.
Oh, if you can find time to hie down to Chandler, check out the new Big
2 Toyota showroom that opened there today--right at the intersection of
Gilbert Road and the San Tan Freeway (Loop 202).
Chandler is in another world. I'm only there to occasionally visit a
relative. I'm Central Phoenix North, near VA Hosp.

I fully believe that the entire Toyota line are the best in each of their
classes. You can buy cheaper, but not better for the money and a long ways
above. I just wish they'd bring out a new Mister Two. The Miata has too
much market....
Post by Michelle Steiner
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 19:45:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
Oh, if you can find time to hie down to Chandler, check out the new
Big 2 Toyota showroom that opened there today--right at the
intersection of Gilbert Road and the San Tan Freeway (Loop 202).
Chandler is in another world. I'm only there to occasionally visit a
relative. I'm Central Phoenix North, near VA Hosp.
OK. I thought that might be the case.
Post by Seth Hammond
I fully believe that the entire Toyota line are the best in each of
their classes. You can buy cheaper, but not better for the money and
a long ways above.
I think that Honda is in that same category, but I think that Toyota's
hybrid schema is vastly superior to Honda's.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 21:31:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
Oh, if you can find time to hie down to Chandler, check out the new
Big 2 Toyota showroom that opened there today--right at the
intersection of Gilbert Road and the San Tan Freeway (Loop 202).
Chandler is in another world. I'm only there to occasionally visit a
relative. I'm Central Phoenix North, near VA Hosp.
OK. I thought that might be the case.
Post by Seth Hammond
I fully believe that the entire Toyota line are the best in each of
their classes. You can buy cheaper, but not better for the money and
a long ways above.
I think that Honda is in that same category, but I think that Toyota's
hybrid schema is vastly superior to Honda's.
--
Honda's still in second place in overall value.

Toyota now sells more cars than anyone else in the world.

I'm more than a little of a speed freak. I know the two things Honda owners
do first for better performance; cold air intake and efficient exhaust
header. My Corolla came stock with both. I've only added a K&N air filter
for easier breathing. I eat 4-banger Hondas....
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
I'm more than a little of a speed freak.
I bet you are, lay off the meth you junkie...
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
I think that Toyota's
hybrid schema is vastly superior to Honda's.
Is that why it gets less mpg?

You see Mikey what "you think" is never worth much, ever.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-20 20:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Malone
I think that Toyota's hybrid schema is vastly superior to Honda's.
Is that why it gets less mpg?
Actually, the Prius gets greater MPG than the Civic Hybrid. As usual,
you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Oh, if you're referring to the Insight,
1. It's a two-seater and much lighter than the Prius.
2. It has a three-cylinder engine.
3. It is discontinued.

As I said, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 20:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Sam Malone
I think that Toyota's hybrid schema is vastly superior to Honda's.
Is that why it gets less mpg?
Actually, the Prius gets greater MPG than the Civic Hybrid.
But not the Insight, nutless one.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Chandler is in another world.
For you I'm sure it is...
Post by Seth Hammond
I'm only there to occasionally visit a
relative. I'm Central Phoenix North, near VA Hosp.
Best to stay close to home, pity that they can't cure your stupidity.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 18:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
I've had Lincolns, Buicks, MG, Olds, Pontiacs, Chryslers, Fords, and
Chevys....
My cars have been
Dodge Charger (the original fastback model)
American Motors AMX
Mercury Cyclone GT
Mazda RX2
Mazda GLC
Honda Civic
Saturn SL2
Geo Prizm (my spouse's car)
VW New Beetle
Acura TL3.2
Toyota Prius
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 19:33:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
I've had Lincolns, Buicks, MG, Olds, Pontiacs, Chryslers, Fords, and
Chevys....
My cars have been
Dodge Charger (the original fastback model)
American Motors AMX
Mercury Cyclone GT
I'll bet you wish you had any of those again.

I've had faster & quicker, but my fanciest car was one I ordered from the
factory. It was a TEN PASSENGER Mercury Marquis station wagon w/ a 429ci
V-8, brocade upholstery and all options. Jaws dropped when I took clients
to lunch....
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-18 19:43:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
My cars have been
Dodge Charger (the original fastback model)
American Motors AMX
Mercury Cyclone GT
I'll bet you wish you had any of those again.
The AMX maybe. I got rid of it when Sharon got preggers. A two seater
is not practical for a family of three, even when one of the three is an
infant.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-18 21:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
My cars have been
Dodge Charger (the original fastback model)
American Motors AMX
Mercury Cyclone GT
I'll bet you wish you had any of those again.
The AMX maybe. I got rid of it when Sharon got preggers. A two seater
is not practical for a family of three, even when one of the three is an
infant.
--
I admired those AMX's. They gave many better known muscle cars something to
think about.

Probably my fastest & quickest car was a '74 Mercury Capri. It was a
sleeper and screamer. It had a 2.8L V-6 Ford and was very light weight. I
ate Corvettes and Datsun Z's for breakfast....
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
My cars have been
Dodge Charger (the original fastback model)
American Motors AMX
Mercury Cyclone GT
I'll bet you wish you had any of those again.
The AMX maybe. I got rid of it when Sharon got preggers.
Cripes, that's when you HAD a set of nuts, eh?
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
I've had Lincolns, Buicks, MG, Olds, Pontiacs, Chryslers, Fords, and
Chevys....
My cars have been
Dodge Charger (the original fastback model)
American Motors AMX
Mercury Cyclone GT
I'll bet you wish you had any of those again.
I've had faster & quicker, but my fanciest car was one I ordered from the
factory. It was a TEN PASSENGER Mercury Marquis station wagon w/ a 429ci
V-8, brocade upholstery and all options. Jaws dropped when I took clients
to lunch....
"Clients"????

Don't you spell that "johns"?

I'm sure the fold down seats were an indispensable feature in your trade....
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
I've had Lincolns, Buicks, MG, Olds, Pontiacs, Chryslers, Fords, and
Chevys....
My cars have been
No one cares what your cars have been you nutless surgical capon, grow
up, quit seeking the approval of people in uselessnet.
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle, and the options cannot be
comparable because the Prius has standard features and options that are
just not available on the Corolla.
Like what?
I don't remember the 2003 Prius as being bigger than the 2003 Corolla, and I
looked at both at the time. I know a salesman pointed out that the Corolla
was bigger than the Camry of just a few years earlier.
My Corolla is the LE, or top of the Corolla line. I still just love it.
It's probably the best car I've ever owned.
I've had Lincolns, Buicks, MG, Olds, Pontiacs, Chryslers, Fords, and
Chevys....
No one gives a flying fuck what you've "had" you Jew-hating racist
vermin, fuck off and DIE!
Sam Malone
2007-01-20 19:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very
disappointed, as their more costlier cars do not deliver better
mileage, and in some cases not even as good.
Not that I've heard about.
rec.autos.honda has plenty of owner complaints about it.
*nod* I've not been paying attention to hybrids other than the
Prius. Toyota's and Honda's hybrid technologies are quite
different from each other.
Post by Larry in AZ
Also see Consumer Reports, two or three months ago.
Unfortunately, their best online reporting requires a paid
subscription.
I happen to have a paid account there. I couldn't find anything
that claims that people were complaining about the hybrids not
getting as good mileage as equivalent conventional cars.
It was in the magazine and wasn't about complaints. It detailed the
real world costs of hybrid vs. conventional from the same
manufacturer, with other options being more or less equal.
This portion of the thread was about complaints of not getting mileage.
See above.
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle,
Are you on drugs, they are BOTH rated as subcompacts, the Corolla is
only fractionally smaller in terms of usable interior volume.
Post by Michelle Steiner
and the options cannot be
comparable because the Prius has standard features and options that are
just not available on the Corolla.
Like what, the "gee whiz fuel economy svreen"?

Big fucking deal, they're subcompacts, deal with it.
Post by Michelle Steiner
"'The dollars & sense of hybrids' posted on ConsumerReports.org is an
updated and corrected version of the report printed in the April issue
" € A calculation error involving projections for depreciation in the
original, printed version led us to overstate how much extra money
hybrids will cost owners during the first five years, compared with
owning similar all-gas models.
"Our data show that if buyers are able to take full advantage of limited
federal tax credits, four hybrids are projected to cost less,
But those credits are GONE, done, over!

Moot point, they're expired now, you fucking surgical capon rationalizer.

Quit trying to explain away your irrational hybrid car purchase, no one
is buying it.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-20 20:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Malone
Post by Michelle Steiner
However, CU compared the Prius to the Corolla, which is an invalid
comparison. The Corolla is a smaller vehicle,
Are you on drugs, they are BOTH rated as subcompacts, the Corolla is
only fractionally smaller in terms of usable interior volume.
The Prius is classified as a mid-sized automobile, you lying piece of
shit.
Post by Sam Malone
Post by Michelle Steiner
"Our data show that if buyers are able to take full advantage of
limited federal tax credits, four hybrids are projected to cost
less,
But those credits are GONE, done, over!
No, they're not, dumb shit. They've been reduced, but they're not over,
fuckwit.

If you knew ten times what you think you know, you'd know one tenth of
what you actually know, you brainless twit.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
samovar
2007-01-18 00:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Larry in AZ
Long-distance drivers of many hybrid cars have been very
disappointed, as their more costlier cars do not deliver better
mileage, and in some cases not even as good.
Not that I've heard about.
But you can keep perpetuating that myth or you can look at the results
of the research by IntelliChoice.com
The bottom line is that in the long run, hybrids have a lower total cost
of ownership than equivalent non-hybrid models.
Yeah...right...


http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html


The Plot Thickens
The one item that nobody has been talking about is the replacement costs
for batteries—because nobody is replacing them. That's what I thought
until I received an email from Ray Molton, who works in the real estate
industry in Houston, Texas. Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five
years and 113,000 miles. And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer
estimated the replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the
car for parts."

Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue." He
called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000 to
$9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another 2001
Prius with a bad battery. Maybe there is a conspiracy brewing, after
all. In a follow-up email, Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these battery
issues to get out to the public. How could there be two 2001 Priuses in
the same shop at the same time, if they have had no problems with the
batteries?"

To make matters worse, Ray bought a salvage Prius battery to soften the
damage to his pocketbook—only to discover that the salvage battery's #13
cell was corroded, the same #13 cell that had a problem on his Prius.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-17 20:42:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
A Prius would have cost me another $1500 and gotten only ten mpg more
than my Corolla.
The Prius and the Corolla are in two different categories; the Toyota
that's more comparable to the Prius is the Camry.

By the way, I'm averaging 48 to 52 MPG with my Prius. Are you getting
about 40 MPG with your Corolla?
Post by Seth Hammond
I believe it's still only those drivers doing a lot of stop and go
city driving that can save in the long run....
Nope; most of my driving is on the freeways and the 45-50 MPH rural and
suburban roads.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Seth Hammond
2007-01-17 22:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
A Prius would have cost me another $1500 and gotten only ten mpg more
than my Corolla.
The Prius and the Corolla are in two different categories; the Toyota
that's more comparable to the Prius is the Camry.
At least in price if not in size.
Post by Michelle Steiner
By the way, I'm averaging 48 to 52 MPG with my Prius. Are you getting
about 40 MPG with your Corolla?
I haven't checked since I bought it, but then it got 40 mpg with A/C mostly
on.
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
I believe it's still only those drivers doing a lot of stop and go
city driving that can save in the long run....
Nope; most of my driving is on the freeways and the 45-50 MPH rural and
suburban roads.
That's the first such report I've seen.
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-17 23:20:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
Post by Michelle Steiner
The Prius and the Corolla are in two different categories; the
Toyota that's more comparable to the Prius is the Camry.
At least in price if not in size.
Size, price, and features. About the only things that the Prius doesn't
have that my 2001 Acura TL had are leather seats and heated seats.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
Michael R. McAfee
2007-01-17 22:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
A Prius would have cost me another $1500 and gotten only ten mpg more
than my Corolla.
The Prius and the Corolla are in two different categories; the Toyota
that's more comparable to the Prius is the Camry.
By the way, I'm averaging 48 to 52 MPG with my Prius. Are you getting
about 40 MPG with your Corolla?
Post by Seth Hammond
I believe it's still only those drivers doing a lot of stop and go
city driving that can save in the long run....
Nope; most of my driving is on the freeways and the 45-50 MPH rural and
suburban roads.
What happens when it is time to replace the batteries? What kind of cost
will that be, and how long will they last? Any maintenance required for
the batteries?
--
*******************
Michael R. McAfee
Mesa, AZ
*******************
Michelle Steiner
2007-01-17 23:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by Michelle Steiner
Nope; most of my driving is on the freeways and the 45-50 MPH rural
and suburban roads.
What happens when it is time to replace the batteries? What kind of
cost will that be, and how long will they last? Any maintenance
required for the batteries?
The batteries are warranted for either 8 years/100,000 miles or 10
years/150,000 miles, depending on state laws. (California, New York,
and most New England states) have the higher warranty.) That does not
mean that they won't last longer than that, of course. To date, there
are no known battery failures other than those caused by traffic
accidents. There is no required maintenance, and no user-serviceable
maintenance.

I don't know the cost of replacement, but I've heard $3,000 bandied
about--whether that's current figures or projected, I don't know.
--
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
samovar
2007-01-17 23:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by Michelle Steiner
Nope; most of my driving is on the freeways and the 45-50 MPH rural
and suburban roads.
What happens when it is time to replace the batteries? What kind of
cost will that be, and how long will they last? Any maintenance
required for the batteries?
The batteries are warranted for either 8 years/100,000 miles or 10
years/150,000 miles, depending on state laws. (California, New York,
and most New England states) have the higher warranty.) That does not
mean that they won't last longer than that, of course. To date, there
are no known battery failures other than those caused by traffic
accidents.
FUCKING LYING TRANNY FREAK!

http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html

The Plot Thickens
The one item that nobody has been talking about is the replacement costs
for batteries—because nobody is replacing them. That's what I thought
until I received an email from Ray Molton, who works in the real estate
industry in Houston, Texas. Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five
years and 113,000 miles. And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer
estimated the replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the
car for parts."

Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue." He
called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000 to
$9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another 2001
Prius with a bad battery. Maybe there is a conspiracy brewing, after
all. In a follow-up email, Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these battery
issues to get out to the public. How could there be two 2001 Priuses in
the same shop at the same time, if they have had no problems with the
batteries?"

To make matters worse, Ray bought a salvage Prius battery to soften the
damage to his pocketbook—only to discover that the salvage battery's #13
cell was corroded, the same #13 cell that had a problem on his Prius.
samovar
2007-01-18 00:18:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael R. McAfee
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
A Prius would have cost me another $1500 and gotten only ten mpg more
than my Corolla.
The Prius and the Corolla are in two different categories; the Toyota
that's more comparable to the Prius is the Camry.
By the way, I'm averaging 48 to 52 MPG with my Prius. Are you getting
about 40 MPG with your Corolla?
Post by Seth Hammond
I believe it's still only those drivers doing a lot of stop and go
city driving that can save in the long run....
Nope; most of my driving is on the freeways and the 45-50 MPH rural
and suburban roads.
What happens when it is time to replace the batteries? What kind of cost
will that be, and how long will they last? Any maintenance required for
the batteries?
rotflol...


http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html

The Plot Thickens
The one item that nobody has been talking about is the replacement costs
for batteries—because nobody is replacing them. That's what I thought
until I received an email from Ray Molton, who works in the real estate
industry in Houston, Texas. Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five
years and 113,000 miles. And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer
estimated the replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the
car for parts."

Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue." He
called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000 to
$9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another 2001
Prius with a bad battery. Maybe there is a conspiracy brewing, after
all. In a follow-up email, Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these battery
issues to get out to the public. How could there be two 2001 Priuses in
the same shop at the same time, if they have had no problems with the
batteries?"

To make matters worse, Ray bought a salvage Prius battery to soften the
damage to his pocketbook—only to discover that the salvage battery's #13
cell was corroded, the same #13 cell that had a problem on his Prius.
samovar
2007-01-18 00:18:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
Post by Seth Hammond
A Prius would have cost me another $1500 and gotten only ten mpg more
than my Corolla.
The Prius and the Corolla are in two different categories; the Toyota
that's more comparable to the Prius is the Camry.
By the way, I'm averaging 48 to 52 MPG with my Prius. Are you getting
about 40 MPG with your Corolla?
Yer gonna have a fucking fit when that battery pack needs to be
replaced, you moron.
Post by Michelle Steiner
http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/hidden-costs.html
The Plot Thickens
The one item that nobody has been talking about is the replacement costs for batteries—because nobody is replacing them. That's what I thought until I received an email from Ray Molton, who works in the real estate industry in Houston, Texas. Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five years and 113,000 miles. And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer estimated the replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the car for parts."
Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue." He called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000 to $9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another 2001 Prius with a bad battery. Maybe there is a conspiracy brewing, after all. In a follow-up email, Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these battery issues to get out to the public. How could there be two 2001 Priuses in the same shop at the same time, if they have had no problems with the batteries?"
To make matters worse, Ray bought a salvage Prius battery to soften the damage to his pocketbook—only to discover that the salvage battery's #13 cell was corroded, the same #13 cell that had a problem on his Prius.
samovar
2007-01-18 00:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seth Hammond
A Prius would have cost me another $1500 and gotten only ten mpg more than
my Corolla.
Replace that battery pack (which will wear prematurely in the Valley's
high heat load) and tell me how smart your disposable electric car was.
samovar
2007-01-18 00:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michelle Steiner
DETROIT, MI (January 8, 2007) - A survey released today by PRIMEDIA's
IntelliChoice.com, the leading source for automotive ownership cost and
value analysis, reveals that the twenty-two hybrid vehicles currently on
the market save their owners more money than the other vehicles in their
respective classes.
Now factor in anywhere from $5K to $10K for a new battery pack in about
10 years, vs. say a water pump replacement and tell me how cost
effective they are.
Loading...